ObjectSharp

Elevating Privileges in SharePoint

jlee — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 18:56:17 GMT

Here’s a good tip for elevating privileges in SharePoint.

http://blogs.devhorizon.com/blogs/reza_on_blogging/archive/2007/07/12/484.aspx

For those who doesn’t want to click on that link (like myself when I searching for this post again), here’s the code.

//Don't dispose the following two objects. Sharepoint will take care of their disposal when page is completely rendered.
SPWeb webInUserContext = SPContext.Current.Web;
SPSite SiteInUserContext = SPContext.Current.Site;
Guid webGuid = webInUserContext.ID;
Guid siteGuid = SiteInUserContext.ID;

SPSecurity.RunWithElevatedPrivileges(delegate()
                {
                    // get the site in impersonated context
                    using (SPSite site = new SPSite(siteGuid))
                    {

                        // get the web in the impersonated context
                        SPWeb web = site.OpenWeb(webGuid);
                       // Do your work here

web.Dispose();
}

});

There we go. I used this piece of code to access the SPFile of a document within SharePoint. SPFile requires elevated privileges, and can’t be access with just your normal privileges.

My code works now, and I’m happy. :)

First Post of the Year and a Gift for You

bruce — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 14:53:21 GMT

Now that the holidays are over (which weren't particularly fun for me this year, due to a persistent bout with sinusitis), it's time to get back to the posting. And to start things off, let me offer any of you who might be thinking about going to DevTeach Vancouver at the beginning of June (8th to the 12th). Jean-Rene Roy, the organizer of the conference, has offered 50% off the registration cost to the first 30 people who register with the following code: DEVT50OFFVAN. Also, the registration need to be done prior to Feb 10th.

If you've never been to a DevTeach conference, you don't know what you're missing. This is easily the top .NET developer-focused conference in Canada. They get big name speakers presenting on the latest and greatest of technologies. As well, the setup for the conference is such that the speakers are much more accessible than any other conference I've been to. So not only will you be able to hear familiar luminaries, but you'll also get the ability to speak with them one-on-one. A great deal at full price, this becomes an incredible opportunity at half-price. So if you were just thinking of going, let this offer make your mind up for you.

Technology Predictions and Trends for 2009

Barry Gervin — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 19:27:13 GMT

I’m sure we’re going to look back at 2009 and say “it was the best of times, it was the worst of times’ and it will no doubt be interesting. Here’s my predictions….

Social Networking Everywhere

Although online social networking companies are already struggling with diminished valuations, in 2009 we’ll see social networks break out of their silos and become essential platform elements that see their way into other online applications such as travel, e-commerce, job-posting boards, online dating services, CRM services, web based email systems, etc. Blogging is also changing, slowing down in fact. Micro-blogging with status update-esque features in FaceBook, Windows Live, and of course the explosion of Twitter will take on even larger roles. It’s as true today as it was back in 1964 when fellow Canadian Marshall McLuhan wrote “The Medium Is The Message”.

The Death of Optical Media

Okay, so you’ll still be able to walk into a video store to rent a DVD or buy a spindle of blanks at your grocery store but make no mistake about it – the death march is on, and that includes you too Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray will never see the adoption curve that DVD’s had. They thought they won when HD-DVD died, but if winning means dying last, then sure, you won. We’ll increasingly be renting our movies on-demand through our cable boxes, on our converged PC’s and XBOX 360’s via services like Netflix. Along with this, the rest of us will start to realize we don’t really need to own our libraries of movies. With IPod penetration as high as it is, it may take longer to realize we don’t need to own our music either – frankly we don’t own it anyway even though the pricing models try to convince us we do. I won’t go out and predict the death of DRM, frankly, I think 2009 maybe the year where DRM starts to get more tolerable once we are clearly renting our music and movies. The Zune Pass is making some inroads here but until Apple starts offering a similar subscription pricing, this may take a bit longer.

The Mac Air may have been a bit ahead of the curve with dropping the optical drive, but get used to it. Expect more vendors to do the same as they reduce size or cram in additional batteries or hard drives.

The Rise of the NetBook

If 2009 is the year of doing more with less, then this will surely be the NetBook’s year. Mainstream hardware manufacturers hate these and their small profit margins, but Acer and Intel will be raking it in building market share if not large bottom lines. Who knows, MS may learn to love the NetBook if they can get Acer to start shipping Windows 7 on them this year as well. Be prepared to see these everywhere in 2009, but don’t expect to see Apple make one (ever).

Zune Phone

The big story at the end of 2008 has been the global suicide of the original Zune 30s. I predict that tomorrow they’ll be they shall rise from the dead but it might take until the 2nd for everybody to figure out that they need to entirely drain the battery. The big news is that there won’t be a Zune phone with the MS brand name on it, but the Zune UI will come to Windows Mobile (6.5?) turning legions of touch based smart phones into music players almost as good as an IPhone. The bad news is that without an App Store to vet software quality, crapware will continue to be the source of reliability issues for the Windows Mobile platform. The good news is that without an App Store, Windows Mobile users will have lots of choice in the software for their devices, not to mention lots of choice in devices, carriers and plans. The battle between Good and Evil may morph into the battle between Reliability and Choice.

Touch Everywhere

Get your head out of the gutter, that’s not what I meant. What I did mean is that 12-24 months from now, it will be difficult to purchase a digital frame, LCD monitor or phone without an onscreen touch capability. Windows 7 will light these devices up and we’ll start to not think about the differences between Tablet PC’s and Notebooks as they just converge into a single device. With the advent of Silverlight, WPF and Surface computing, MS has been banging the “user experience” drum for a while now but when touch starts to be the expectation and not the exception, we’ll have to re-engineer our applications to optimize for the touch experience. This may turn out to be bigger than the mouse or even a windowed operation system.

Flush with Flash

In 2008 we’ve been teased with sold state hard drives but with less than stellar performance at outrageous prices, they’ve been on the fringe. In 2009 prices and read/write times will both come down in solid state drives, but with the increased capacity of USB memory sticks 32gb, 64gb +, we likely won’t see SSD drives hitting mainstream this year. Instead I think we’ll see an increase in the behavior of people keeping their entire lives on USB flash memory sticks. Hopefully we’ll see sync & backup software such as Windows Live Sync, Active Sync, Windows Home Server, etc. become more aware of these portable memory devices that may get synced from any device in your mesh.

Camera flash will have to have a new format as SDHC currently is maxed at 32gb. With the increase in demand for HD video recording on still and video cameras, we’ll need a new format. As such we’re seeing rock bottom prices on 2gb chips now. Maybe somebody will come out with a SD Raid device that lets us plug in a bank of 2GB SD Cards.

Growing up in the Cloud

Cloud computing is going to be a very long term trend. I think we’ll only see baby steps in 2009 towards this goal. In the consumer space we’ll see more storage of digital media in the cloud, online backup services and the move of many applications to the cloud. Perfect for your Touch Zune Phone and Touch NetBook without an optical drive eh? IT shops will take a bit longer to embrace the cloud. Although many IT Data centers are largely virtualized already, applications are not all that virtual today and that doesn’t seem to be changing soon as developers have not whole-heartedly adopted SOA practices, addressed scalability and session management issues nor adopted concepts such as multi-tenancy. As we do more with less in 2009, we won’t see that changing much as a lot of software out there will be in “maintenance mode” during the recession.

Maybe, Just Maybe, this is the year of the Conveniently Connected Smart Client

Adobe Air & Silverlight are mainstreaming web deployed and updated rich client desktop apps. It’s hard to take advantage of touch interfaces and massive portable flash storage within a browser. All of these other trends can influence Smart Client applications, potentially to a tipping point. We’ll hopefully see out of browser, cross-platform Silverlight applications in 2009 to make this an easy reality on the MS Stack.

Incremental, Value-Based and Agile Software Development

Many of my customers began large-scale re-writes of their key software assets in 2008, many of them against my recommendations. For most of my key customers in 2008 and into 2009 I’m an advocate of providing incremental value in short iterative releases, not major re-writes that take 6+ months to develop. Even if your application is written in PowerBuilder 6 or Classic ASP, avoid the temptation to rewrite any code that won’t see production for 4 months or longer. We can work towards componentized software by refactoring legacy assets and providing key integration points so that we can release updated modules towards gradual migration. It is difficult for software teams in this economy to produce big-bang, “boil the ocean”, build cathedral type projects. We simply can’t predict what our project’s funding will be in 4 months from now, or if we’ll be owned by another company, scaled down, out sourced or just plain laid off. That is of course unless you work for the government. Government spending will continue if not increase in 2009, but still, try to spend our taxpayer money wisely by delivering short incremental software releases. It allows you to build trust with your customers, mark a line in the sand and move onward and upward, and let’s you move quickly in times of fluid business requirements and funding issues.

Incremental, Value-Based software development isn’t easy. It takes lots of work, creative thinking, and much interop and integration work than one would prefer. It might easily seem like an approach that costs more in the long term, and in some cases you could be right. But if a company has to throw out work in progress after 6-8 months or never sees the value of it because of other changing business conditions, then what have you saved? Probably not your job anyway.

Where is my Check-In in SharePoint Designer?

jlee — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:03:18 GMT

If you notice, the master page file in SharePoint Designer is checked out (from the check symbol at the side). It’s supposed to show me “Check In” and “Undo Check Out” and all that. Where is it?

It is under your “Edit” toolbar, “Check In”.

So when it doesn’t display, you know where to go.

Hiding Sign In Link For Anonymous Access Users in SharePoint

jlee — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 01:15:45 GMT

To customize SharePoint “Sign In” link, we need to modify or duplicate Welcome.ascx in your Control Templates directory.

Here’s a good post specifying how to hide your sign in link.

Hide the Sign In link for the anonymous access user in anonymous access enabled site - Bend the Welcome.ascx - SharePoint MOSS

You can play around with Welcome.ascx and come up with your custom style sign in.

SharePoint and Vista: a problem with “Explorer View” and “Create list from spreadsheet”

max — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:39:24 GMT

We have recently encountered a problem with some of the SharePoint (WSS or MOSS) features not working properly in Windows Vista:

When users attempt to display a document library in the Explorer view within the web application that uses Kerberos authentication, nothing happens: Explorer view never comes up and no errors displayed either
Or, when users attempt to display a document library within the web application that uses NTLM authentication, they get "Your client does not support opening this list with Windows Explorer" error;
When users attempt to create list from Excel spreadsheet they get "Method 'Post' of object 'IOWSPostData' failed" error

After a lot of research and many unsuccessful attempts to fix these problems using various solutions found on the web, I have finally able to find a workaround that have worked on Windows Vista 32-bit.

Solutions that did not work in our situation:

Installing and enabling WebDav on IIS 7
Installing Desktop Experience on Windows 2008 server 64 bit
Modifying EXPTOOWS.XLA macro file to force using a different version number
Etc…

The workaround that worked:

Install hotfix KB945015 on the client machine to fix a bug caused by an extra forward slash mark (/)appended to the query path of a WebDAV PROPFIND request
Install Web folder hotfix on the client machine to get Vista map a drive to a web location on SharePoint
Map a "Web Network Location" on your PC to the root of the SharePoint site in question and ensure that you save the credentials

This workaround only worked for Windows Vista 32-bit.

Free UX Tools and Extensions for Websites

jlee — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:24:45 GMT

Here’s a great blog post with the compilation of great tools if you’re a web developer.

Top 29 Free UX Tools and Extensions

I ran a few of the test on our website, and boy are there a few optimizations we could have done, especially for the JavaScript within the pages to improve performance. And also some quirks xhtml and css errors which will just make things nice and more standardised.

Easy(er) ASP.NET Workflow Forms with the WSS 3.0 Workflow Tools

rwindsor — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 17:55:00 GMT

[via Wouter Van Vugt]

WSS3 Workflow Tools helps developers create better WSS 3.0 workflows by providing a development framework and by integrating into the Visual Studio development environment. The primary focus for this first release is on making it easier to create ASP.NET workflow forms.

The first release consists of:

Base classes for all workflow form types
UserControl framework, quite similar to what InfoPath is providing in MOSS
Visual designers for InputForm, InputFormSection, InputFormControl and ButtonSection
Visual Studio templates for VS2005 / VS2008, for all forms and controls
Easy to use installer

Check it out at http://www.codeplex.com/wss3workflow.

Technorati Tags: [SharePoint], [WSS], [Workflow]

Two Great Sites for ASP.NET Developers Who Want to Learn SharePoint 2007

rwindsor — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:36:00 GMT

MSDN RampUp - SharePoint for Developers and mssharepointdeveloper.com
Both these sites have articles, webcasts and hands-on labs designed to help .NET developers to learn the key points of SharePoint development. A variety of materials with different learning styles help you get started doing SharePoint 2007 development.

The Great SharePoint Adventure - WSS 3.0 and MOSS 2007 for Developers
If you want more than the quick boost provided by the resources above, you can get a broader and deeper picture by taking our five-day course. It's about 70% instructor demos and labs and you get to take all the code back to the office with you for reference.

Entity Framework: What you need to know. Metro Toronto UG Dec 9th 2008

Barry Gervin — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 21:55:17 GMT

I’ll be speaking tomorrow night at the Metro Toronto .NET UG tomorrow night.

Entity Framework: What You Need to Know

Barry Gervin, ObjectSharp
Tuesday, December 9, 2008 at 6:00pm
New Location! Palmerston Library Theatre (lower level), 560 Palmerston Avenue, Toronto (2 blocks west of Bloor & Bathurst)

Is this the last data access technology we’ll ever need from MS – or just another one along the way? What is the Entity Framework and what is the difference between EDM, and LINQ to Entities. What’s different between LINQ to SQL? This session will give you the background on the Entity Framework and help you understand the MS data access strategy and how to apply it in practice. We’ll look at what’s available today, how best to apply it in the real world coupled with other complimentary technologies such as ADO.NET Data Services and Enterprise Library’s Validation Application Block.

And best of all, we’re having a food drive for the Daily Bread Food Bank. You can donate cash by clicking here or non-perishable good such as.

Peanut Butter
Baby Formula & Food
Canned Fruits or Vegetables
Canned Fish or Meat
Dried Pasta & Tomato Sauce
Rice
Lentils
Cans of Soup or Hearty Stew
Powdered, Canned or Tetra Pak Milk
Cans of Beans
Macaroni and Cheese

Did You Know?

Your cash donation will purchase twice as much food as you can purchase at the grocery store. The daily bread food bank purchases Bulk Quantities of food, which gets to where it is needed faster because there is no sorting step required.

Staying Sane in Today’s Software Development World with Billy Hollis

rwindsor — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 04:38:00 GMT

I'm a big fan of Billy Hollis. He just seems to really get what's going on in the .NET development world and the issues that today's developers are facing. I just finished listening to a Deep Fried Bytes podcast where Billy spoke with hosts Keith Elder and Chris Woodruff about the flood of new technology coming from Microsoft and how developers are dealing with it. It's definitely worth a listen.

http://deepfriedbytes.com/podcast/episode-13-staying-sane-in-today-rsquo-s-software-development-world-with-billy-hollis/

On with the new… server that is

max — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:01:21 GMT

As a part of our continuing commitment to the server/service improvements and never-ending technological progress, we have moved ObjectSharp blogs to the new (better, faster, and prettier) server. ObjectSharp has always demonstrated a leadership in adopting cutting-edge technologies, so moving our blogs to the emerging cloud services only makes sense for us. For now, we use Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud running Windows, at least until Microsoft Windows Azure cloud services mature. More updates and upgrades coming soon. Stay tuned…

Please update your favorites and RSS feeds with the new URL: http://blogs.objectsharp.com

SharePoint: Bug or Feature? @Created not on Variation Site

jlee — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:52:01 GMT

As mentioned in the title, the @Created date field (or site column, depending on your terminology), the date of document creation, which is by default available to all pages and documents, is not replicated when you create a site variation. It is however *linked* to the original document from the original site itself. So if you ever decide to turn off site variation, you’ll lose the @Created date field on your site variation, and there’s absolutely no way to get it back, or at least I haven’t found a way to get it back without hacking it through code.

So be careful when you decide to create a site variation. This “feature” caught us all by surprise, especially when variation was turned off and still wanted the persisted site.

One suggestion to get around it is to create another field and set the computed value to today’s date. I’ll blog more on how we solve this problem when we actually do.

My Book is now Available

bruce — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:56:31 GMT

In the excitement of PDC, it slipped my mind to let everyone know that the book on which I was a co-author was actually shipped at the beginning of October. The title is the terse, yet incredibly descriptive MCTS Self-Paced Training Kit (Exam 70-503): Microsoft® .NET Framework 3.5 Windows® Communication Foundation (PRO-Certification). There is a bidding war for the movie rights and I'm hoping that George Clooney plays me in the adaptation. :)

For those of you wondering how the actual release might have slipped my mind, the reason is that I'm not involved in the steps that takes place at the end of the publishing process. Most of the book was written in the first half of the year. Since July, I have been reviewing chapters and responding to editor notes. But since the middle of August my tasks have been done. And, I'm afraid, when it comes to book writing, once I'm done, I mentally move on to the next task. So I wasn't even sure when the publication date was. But it was released and, based on the numbers that I've seen so far, it seems to be doing quite well. If any of you have the chance to read it, I'd be thrilled to hear any feedback (both good and bad).

Non-Geek Fun

bruce — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 00:19:26 GMT

I've been a fan of Malcolm Gladwell since I read The Tipping Point. And after following that up with Blick, it is clear that Mr. Gladwell is a fascinating author on subjects that are quite interesting, even when it falls outside my normal range of reading material (that being mostly geeky ). Apparently on Tuesday, a new book of his entitled Outliers: The Story of Success is coming out. That in itself is enough to pique my interest. However, it turns out that, as part of his book tour, Mr. Gladwell is speaking in Toronto on Dec 1 at the University of Toronto Rotman School of Business. And the price of the tickets (only $31 and which you can get here) includes a copy of the book. I'm signed up already and if you have found his books interesting, here is a chance to hear him in person.

How to change the URL for SharePoint Central Administration site

max — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 22:13:01 GMT

I have been working on configuring high availability for SharePoint servers (MOSS or WSS), and for a little while I wasn't able to figure out the way to modify the URL for SharePoint Central Administration site. So, basically you extend the Central Administration web application (using GUI or psconfig command) to run on multiple servers, and when you click on SharePoint Central Administration icon you're still redirected to a specific SharePoint server instead of been redirected to the Load Balancing URL. Anyway, as it turns out the URL has to be changed via registry on all SharePoint servers. Weird?!

To change the URL for SharePoint Central Administration URL:

Open Registry editor
Backup the registry before making any changes!!!
Go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Shared Tools\Web Server Extensions\12.0\WSS and change the value of CentralAdministrationURL to whatever you want to be

How to change the port number for SharePoint Central Administration site

max — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 21:09:52 GMT

To change a port number that SharePoint Central Administration site is running on:

Open Command Prompt
Go to BIN folder in SharePoint install directory (by default, it would be "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\web server extensions\12\BIN")
To get the port number that Central Administration site is currently running on, type

stsadm.exe -o getadminport
To change a port number that SharePoint Central Administration site is using, type

stsadm.exe -o setadminport -port <portnumber>

Google Alerts made me laugh :)

dave — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:13:29 GMT

I subscribe to Google Alerts. I have an alert set up to look for the word ObjectSharp. This has worked great over the years, pointing out blogs and articles where people have made reference to ObjectSharp.

This morning I received an Alert that made me laugh. I started reading a news article titled: Here's how and where 'cutters' can get help

Perhaps its someone talking about our training, I thought to myself. As I began to read the article it made no sense. Then I found the source of the Alert. :)

You understand, it made me laugh because of the mix up , not that the article is funny. The Article is very serious and I hope these people get some help.

Dundas Charts in the .Net Framework 3.5 SP1?

dave — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 03:46:13 GMT

It's true. We were looking at using Dundas charts for a client project. One of our associates mentioned that Dundas sold the rights to their Data Visualization packages to Microsoft last year and have added them as a separate installation for .Net framework 3.5 SP1. Read more about it here.

What do I need and where do I get it?

For some help using them check out Chart Forums and Chart Samples

New MS (Dundas) Chart Controls

dan — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 04:46:28 GMT

The client I’m currently working with needed a charting control that would allow us to create something similar to a Gantt chart. Unfortunately the control suite we were using wasn’t quite up to the task. Fortunately a fellow Objectsharpee (and former Dundas employee) told me that Microsoft was going to be putting the Dundas controls they had purchased into the framework, even better was that it had been released just the week previous. I’ve never used Dundas controls previous to this, so I’m not 100% clear what the feature set differences are, or if there are any. The MS Chart control did everything we needed and it was dead simple to do.

All you need to do is download and install the small installer and have .Net 3.5 SP1 already installed.

Chart Docs
Chart Controls
Chart Forums – Note: Not a lot of information in the forums as of this posting, but the Dundas support forums are filled with great, applicable, information.
Chart Samples

Also, Alex Gorev has started a blog all about the new data visualization in the .Net Framework.

TFS Powershell PSSnapin

dan — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 04:19:11 GMT

The October Team Foundation Power Tools drop includes three new features:

TFS Power Shell Extensions
TFS Windows Shell Extensions
Team Members Tool

The only one I care about is the Powershell extensions. Keith Hill has a great post with some examples. I already had a script that made some .NET assembly calls to get me the latest good build off of TFS. I converted that script to use the new snapin, and posted it below. I’m sure some of this is not best practices, feel free to let me know if you have a cleaner implementation.

(Get-TfsServer -Name myTfsServer).GetService(Microsoft.TeamFoundation.Build.Client
.IBuildServer]).QueryBuilds("myProjectName", "myBuildName") |

where { $_.BuildDefinition.LastGoodBuildUri -eq $_.Uri } | select DropLocation

Two lines in my profile.ps1:

[void][System.Reflection.Assembly]::LoadWithPartialName("Microsoft.TeamFoundation.Client")
[void][System.Reflection.Assembly]::LoadWithPartialName("Microsoft.TeamFoundation.Build.Client")

Sharepoint Development: Enable Debugging

jlee — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 19:07:26 GMT

Note to self – Before developing on SharePoint, always enable debugging on the development machine to see a “little” more verbose error messages. Edit the web.config and change the following:

Sharepoint Development: "Request failed" with custom page or dlls/assemblies

jlee — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 18:39:00 GMT

Note to self - If using any external assemblies that try to access Microsoft.Sharepoint assemblies, remember to change the trust level to full in the web.config.

<trust level="Full" originUrl="" />

This is only used during development.

When it comes to production, install assembly into the GAC with gacutil /i to allow external assemblies access to Microsoft.Sharepoint assemblies.

SharePoint: No easy way to deny access

max — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:41:14 GMT

For a sophisticated web application, SharePoint (WSS or MOSS) is missing a feature as simple as Deny access (Deny Read, Deny Write, Deny All). To deny access to the SharePoint for single user or a group of users, you modify Policy for Web Application in SharePoint Central Administration:

Open SharePoint Central Administration
Click on Application Management
Then, under Application security, click on Policy for Web Application
Select correct web application in the drop down
Click on Add Users
Select web application and the zone. Click Next
Enter the username or security group. Select Deny Write or Deny All and click on Finish

Note: This will deny access to the whole web application in SharePoint! There is no way to deny access to a specific SharePoint item (site, list, document library and so on)

Hopefully Microsoft will fix this weakness in the next service pack or so…

DevTeach Montreal

dave — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:41:13 GMT

Have you heard the news?

Every attendee to DevTeach Montreal will get Visual Studio 2008 Pro, Expression Web 2 and Tech-Ed DEV set in their bag!

DevTeach believes that all developers need the right tool to be productive. Therefore you will get, free software, when you register to DevTeach or SQLTeach. Yes that right! They are giving over a $1000 worth of software when you register to DevTeach. You will find in your conference bag a version of Visual Studio 2008 Professional, ExpressionTM Web 2 and the Tech-Ed Conference DVD Set. Now that is a good deal? DevTeach and SQLTeach are really the training you can’t get any other way.